InfoMagic Internet Tools 1995 April/Internet Tools.iso/dos_win/winsock/maillist/94-03.Z/94-03/text0343.txt

Text File | 1994-03-30 | 8.5 KB | 206 lines

In article <[e-mail]>
           [e-mail]  writes:

>Where is the official FTP site for Trumpet Winsock? I know this sounds stupid,
>but I have seen so many...
>
The following is an earlier post to a question of the same type. Hope it helps.

**************************************************

>Could some kind sole let this poor UNIX bigot know where the
>authoritative site is for the assorted trumpet packages?


ftp.utas.edu.au in /pc/trumpet

mirrored (with Peter Tattam's permission) at biochemistry.bioc.cwru.edu

/pub/trumpet = DOS Trumpet programs
/pub/wintrump = WinTrumpet newsreader
/pub/trumpwsk = Trumpet Winsock implementation

Later,
Ashok

***************************************************

--

Regards,
--
John Foster                          Internet   : [e-mail]
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Cheshire. CW2 7BB.
United Kingdom.
From [e-mail] Fri Mar 25 03:06:07 1994
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Date: 25 Mar 1994 08:06:07 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Paul Ohm)
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Organization: Yale University Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT.
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Subject: (mini-faq) TCP-IP over Localtalk on a PC



I've been meaning to write up the lessons learned from three years
spent battling TCP-IP over a localtalk network on a PC.  It's a sad
fact that many university administrators are so enamored by Mac's that
they cut costs and cut corners by buying this networking hardware,
which is simply not up to par.  Since I (and many of those before me
here at Yale) have worked long nights trying to get tcp-ip over
localtalk, I thought I'd write some of my collected thoughts down.
Here's my very first attempt.  I'm responding below to a post to
alt.winsock:

-----------------------

Just reading your mail brought back too many painful memories!  :)  We
have a localtalk/appletalk network here, and I've been battling
getting PCs onto it for almost 3 years now.  It hasn't been fun, but I
have learned a lot, and I think that I can probably give you some
tips.  I would be really cool and write a FAQ so no one need suffer
again, but I don't have the time unfortunately, as my Senior Projects
need attention.  Anyway - onto your mail:

> Article 5889 of alt.winsock:
> From: [e-mail] (Evan Dorn)
> Subject: AppleTalk - Can anyone help?
> Date: 25 Mar 1994 00:10:14 GMT
>
> Hey,  my school decided to cripple it's students by installing
> AppleTalk!

Start fighting for ethernet NOW.  Bitch and moan to everyone you can.
No one in the shareware/freeware world is into localtalk development,
and it's just not worth the money to get a PC up and running on
localtalk.  Everything from the card down is expensive, and the
services are marginal - maybe good if you're really willing to shell
out.  Sure, ethernet can be expensive, but your school's missing it,
if they don't recognize that the larger bandwidth is NECESSARY in the
near future.

> Meanwhile, I am working on helping all the *marginalized* PC users get
> connected to the net-  and I'm stymied when it comes to Windows and
> packets.

I take it on the DOS side you've discovered NCSA Telnet 2.3.03?  Best
DOS app I found in two years of testing.  Northwestern's NuPOP is a
close second.

> I have Farallon's Phone net software and some DOS based (Stanford) IP
> stuff successfully running.

What version of Phonenet?  Farallon basically deemed a while back that
they were not in the TCP/IP for localtalk business.  Even if you want
to run your DOS Apps in a Window, it's a challenge.  The trick here is
use the old version (2.02).  Farallon produced 2.02 with no Windows
support at all.  However, if you try, you can load the essential stack
(LSL, LTALKP (or whatever), ATALK, and COMPAT) in a DOS box.  You can
usually tweak the priorities of the PIF and get _something_ running.

Unfortunately, in versions 3.00+ Farallon decided to "support"
windows.  What did this mean?  It meant that they're stack now detects
whether Windows enhanced mode is running - and doesn't load if it is!
When I mailed Farallon about this (something I wouldn't wish on my
worst enemy!) they're reply was simply that: "Our stack doesn't work
in Windows".  What they meant is that in their new model, you can
load the rest of the stack BEFORE Windows, but not compat - which is
the important piece anyway.

> I have installed the Crynwr Appletlk.com packet driver successfully, and
> WINPKT boots OK, but in Windows, the TCPman refuses to start, giving the
> drivers not found error.

Yes - that's to be expected.  The localtalk packet driver was a
godsend, and the people at UC Davis and Northwestern that worked on it
should be canonized, but at the very heart of it, localtalk is a
completely different CLASS of packet driver (localtalk is 2, ethernet
is 5, SLIP is 6? - I always forget), and most anything that isn't
written for localtalk won't recognize it.  This includes the Trumpet
WINSOCK.  The problem is that there are a few good DOS apps that
support the localtalk stack or packet driver (NCSA Telnet for the
former, NuPOP for the latter) but few Windows apps.

> Is this insurmountable because I am on a dumb network?

Yes and No.  If you want full WINSOCK capability, you're not going to
get it for free.  So you have two solutions:

1) Buy a solution.  There are plenty of vendors that claim to have
WINSOCKs for Localtalk.  Yale finally got fed up and began to test
them, and we found a good one - PC/TCP from FTP software.  I don't
work for them, I'm not affiliated in any way, but after 3 years
battling this, watching a WINSOCK app load was positively gratifying.
You're going to have to argue for a good price, it's way too expensive
for most college students, but it's worth a good investment.  It
brings your network connection from brain dead to pretty comparable.

2) Just as Yale switched to PC/TCP, I begin to hear rumblings that
some Windows apps were going to recognize the Localtalk packets in
their next versions.  This included the venerable (if you can be
venerable in the WINSOCK game) QVTNET.  If that is true, I suggest you
look at that first.  It doesn't give you WWW or gopher and the ftp
client is lousy, but it would give you the ability to multi-task your
TCP/IP.

> Any advice would be greatly appreciated by the poor PC users of Swarthmore.

Well, in an effort to help end frustration such as yours, I'm going to
mail this mini-faq out to the major newsgroups that care.  Maybe other
people will contribute and we can all suffer together.  :)

Feel free to ask me any questions.

Paul Ohm
PC Specialist
Yale University
[e-mail]
--
Paul Ohm
PC Specialist - Computing Assistants - Yale University
[e-mail]
From [e-mail] Fri Mar 25 15:32:46 1994
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Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 14:32:46 +0100
To: [e-mail]
From: [e-mail] (Ferenc Jamrik)
Subject: ILP client on Winsock?
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Does anybody knows an ILP (Intercative ListProcessor) on Winsock preferably
a free or shareware?

Thanks,

Ferenc
PS. Please reply me directly!
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Ferenc Jamrik                            e-mail: [e-mail]
Information Research Laboratory          phone:  [phone] x106
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